The cabinet minister from the Suharto era still looked fit. He appeared neatly dressed in a white shirt and with a grey plaid jacket worn over top. His thinning white hair could not conceal his age of nearly 80 years. Yet his memory of the buildup was sharp as steel when he was asked about the Pertamina tanker debt crisis, which took place over three decades ago.

He is Johannes Baptista Sumarlin, now 79. Along with Trade Minister, Radius Prawiro,